Any Comments
Posted on February 14, 2007
Filed Under For Argument's Sake |
I’m writing an article for the Irish Times to coincide with the Irish Blog Awards and I’d appreciate comments from anybody interested.
The line I’m thinking of taking is Irish blogging has had a great year, expanded in numbers, diversity and talent but has it all come a bit late? In the USA the blogging scene is settling down. Daily KOS is established as a key political resource, the Huffington Post has gone mainstream and is now employing journalists to write articles, techcrunch is part of the furniture. Blogging has done all the damage it is going to, or rather brought corrections into the media scene. The pressure for further change though is much diminished.
My questions are: has blogging in Ireland finally found its feet just as the radical edge of blogging seems to have disappeared? Can we realistically expect now that Irish bloggers bring about change and if so where?
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I think we still have a great opportunity here to have impact for one important reason - population. It is much easier here for someone to get noticed by a “mainstream” audience than it is in the US.
So the trad media in the US have done the old embrace and smother on blogging. I think it will be a lot harder to do that here. One loudmouth could easily make a difference. Sure you have the Blogorrahs of the world which are just old-school in new threads but the cost of someone doing something new here and getting noticed is a lot lower.
In the political arena we do seem to be missing an “edge”. Most of the political blogs I read could easily just be normal journalism. I’d love to see something with much more bite. And I don’t mean “blah is a bollox”, I mean going for the jugular on a daily basis, pseudonymously if necessary.
I’d also like to see some agenda setters rather than just commenters and hopefully not out of the political classes or the wannabe political classes. A blogger with a vision for the country over the next ten years would be a joy to read. I’ll shoot anyone who mentions Indymedia as a response to that.
I think 2007 is going to be a great year for blogging in Ireland. Maybe in 2008 it’ll need a kick in the hole like Punk did to Stadium Rock in the 70’s or Alternative Comedy did to the old farts in the 80’s.
As I’ve said before, by and large I’ve given up on newspapers and most of us agree that TV current affairs is a toothless joke. So the opportunity to provide me with a more pointed daily view of “things” in Ireland is something I wish someone would grab.
“Irish blogging has had a great year, expanded in numbers, diversity and talent”
without wanting to piss on the parade of self-congratulatory back-slapping, i’m not really sure i’d agree witht he statement that irish blogging has had a great year. all it seems to have done is muddle along pretty much like the year before.
sites like the huffington post (designed to be mainstream from the get go) are stealing all the limelight in the us. over this side of the atlantic, the limelight is on the way the uk press has adapted to blogging - and (more importantly) audio and video podcasting. in ireland, there is no limelight. why? because there’s nothing to shine it on.
within the mainstream, who’s blogging? there’s no irish equivalent of the huffington post, the gruan’s comment is free or any of the other uk media-owned bloggers. withing the irish ghetto, what blogs are actually read by a wide audience?
with the exception of slugger, are there any irish blogs that reach beyond the ghetto of irish bloggers? that deserve to reach beyond the ghetto, by virtue of attempting to set the agenda and not just follow everyone else (the mainstream media in particular, but also cannibalising other bloggers’ posts)?
Fair play to you for asking for comments for your planned Irish blogs article.
To start with, I don’t hold with your ‘has it all come a bit late’ angle?
A bit late for what? You mention the USA “blogging scene” as if its some sort of immutable, unipolar destination. Every aspect of that country’s culture does not always compute elsewhere.
Your analysis that the “radical edge of blogging” seems to have disappeared may apply to the US, but that radical edge has yet to be seen in Ireland. It’s *very* early days.
In any case, radical blogging is just one aspect of blogging and not an accurate barometer of its future.
Theatre, literature or painting - to name just three, aren’t judged exclusively by their ability to “bring about change”. Why should blogging be any different?
Good luck with the piece.
Fergus
In any case, radical blogging is just one aspect of blogging and not an accurate barometer of its future.
Agreed on this point. Blogging the newsworthy is only one side of it. I’m as likely to read blogs to get my daily dose of good writing as I am to read to be informed.
The publishing world is a difficult one to break into; the market is saturated, there’s very little room there to encourage new writers to develop their craft. That’s what blogging does for me: it creates a world where you can write, upload, and have instant access to readers all over the world, without having to conform to editorial policy. It’s democratic! Now, obviously the downside of this is that for every thoughtful or entertaining blog out there, there are one hundred spam filled shrines to the author… but when you do find a good blog, one whose writer(s) posts to just for the love of it, that’s something worth hanging on to. I’d rather go without my daily newspaper than my blog feeds.
Bringing it back to Ireland, I think that this year could be a massive one for the blogging community, obviously because we’ve got an election coming up. The fact that there are so many out there regularly publishing their thoughts and information the mainstream media may have ignored is something that’s bound to affect the way voters think and decide, even if it’s still on a “niche” level. There might be a potential problem in that an opinion blog may seem to be telling people what to think, as opposed to just laying out the facts and asking readers to make up their own minds…
Will Irish blogging change anything on a substantial level? It’s hard to tell. Being exposed to a wealth of differing slants and opinions is bound to have some effect on the reader; a few years ago we didn’t rely so much on online social networking, yet look at how that’s changing everything. It’s like the internet affords everyone the chance to put their own stamp on the world… “this is what I think, here’s how I feel”. Ranting in Ireland may suddenly feel a lot less anonymous as we come closer to the election. I think it’s exciting. I don’t think we’ve even come close to going “mainstream” with Irish blogging yet.
[…] Haydn is looking for opinions from bloggers about blogging, our favourite topic. My questions are: has blogging in Ireland finally found its feet just as the radical edge of blogging seems to have disappeared? Can we realistically expect now that Irish bloggers bring about change and if so where? […]
The Internet, by its nature is a worldwide seamless community, with no respect for borders or politics. As such it is a place for the voice of the people, rather than the voice of the media.
The fact that blogging in the USA has “settled down” is irrelevant [and why must everything be measured against the USA?]. If anything, that would be a good thing for Irish bloggers. The US may have become stagnant, but surely that means that their blog readers will be looking for fresh blood?
Here in Ireland we have a very rich talent of writers, observers and photographers who are taking to the blogosphere. We are commenting on the day to day issues and on Irish life from the view of the Irish people. To the Irish Diaspora abroad, this must be rich pickings. They no longer just get news on the latest tribunals or whatever - they get the local issues, the local opinion and the local voice.
I don’t think that blogging in Ireland has found its feet. I think it is still finding it. And it is doing well. We have a chance to put our uniquely Irish slant on the web. And the Diaspora is having a feeding frenzy. My own figures show that of my site visitors, one third are from the USA.
I started by saying that the Internet is borderless. The blogosphere is the one real exception to this. The Irish blogosphere is unique simply because it is written by the Irish.
Anything that gets away from the present media perspective has to be a good thing. All national newspapers, radio and television are written by people who live in Dublin, for people who live in Dublin. This is a recipe for mediocrity and parochialism, and it ignores the two-thirds of the population who live elsewhere. (Or “down the country” as the media sometimes insultingly refer to it). You want a living example of it? All right then: Joe Duffy.
As far as a radical edge is concerned, I don’t see any edge in the established media, radical or otherwise. I see a close-knit and mutually supporting cabal of good buddies looking out for eacjh other. So here we have blogging, which is outside the smug media bubble, and of course it’s going to be filled with talentless no-hopers, just like mainstream journalism is. But the few with a strong voice and a sharp pen are free to give offence wherever they think it’s needed, without answering to any puffed-up fool with a knighthood and a heap of money.
Blogging has a great future in Ireland because Ireland is so pompous it needs to be constantly pricked, and neither the papers nor the tv nor the radio are up to the job.
Perhaps “Better late than never” could cover this subject?
How radical should blogging be? For many people it’s a gentle hobby. Polemicists tend to choose other writing forms, even though sparks can fly on some blogs.
Irish blogs don’t seem to make up a significant part of any genre - politicial blogs especially, apart from the blogs of accredited journalists. Music blogging is a scene they could do well in, but nobody in ireland seems to trust it, which is their own idiocy I suppose.
Haydn, I think diversity is the key to a richer blogosphere. Having other countries like Ireland bring a fresh and different perspectives on ideas and opinions is most welcome and should be encouraged. That diversity comes from being from different backgrounds, careers, cultures and countries. The collective sum of opinion is truly greater than the individual parts. Too often, the blogosphere is choked by ad verbatim quotes of a-listers and trends. Your own blog has shown that real-thinkers who challenge all forms of digital media are not necessarily confined to a single country or limited by physical boundaries.
Hi Haydn !
Sharon here , from ‘1169 And Counting…’ :
Damien suggested you might be able to use a few extra paragraphs to help fill your article -
http://awards.ie/blogawards/2007/02/16/haydn-is-writing-a-piece-on-the-blog-awards-comments-wanted/
As part of a group blog (three of us), on Irish history and politics , from an Irish republican perspective , which began in 2002 , we have indeed noticed that the numbers of those blogging have expanded - we now know more about how often people feed their cats , and with what - but are of the opinion that that is not necessarily a good thing : indeed , we know of potential readers who have been discouraged from searching the ‘Irish blogosphere’ precisely because they encountered more blogs on issues about which they have no interest and ‘gave up’ trying to locate blogs which would have perhaps interested them ! Then again , perhaps there are enough ‘cat lovers’ etc out there who would simply not be interested in other types of blogs , but we don’t think so .
We acknowledge , of course , that political blogs are not to everyone’s taste but would point out that politics , more so than ‘cat-food’ etc-type blogs , will have a greater impact on all our lives - whether activist or not - and , therefore - in our opinion , at least - are that wee bit more ‘important’ , in that a political blog might just change the way in which a person (or people) view the goings-on in relation to the political area those blogs seek to specialise in .
The ‘mainstream’ media in this State (ie newspapers , radio etc) are , in our opinion , reluctant to refer to blogs or to acknowledge that ‘proper’ journalists sometimes ‘dip’ into blogs for ideas , stories and/or for reference dates etc : we ourselves were barked-at by a well-known radio presenter when we attempted to bring a post we had published on our blog to his attention - he was covering the same issue : he ’suggested’ we “should buy an ad” from his station if we wanted our blog publicised !
We can only hope that ‘The Irish Times’ will not be so crude….. !
Thank You ,
Slan go foill anois ,
Sharon .
http://1169andcounting.blogspot.com
The mainstream press and broadcast media tends to be a free photocopying service for party press releases. Irish bloggers engage with and challenge party positions in way rarely seen in the mainstream media. Blogging gives lie to the notion of objective reporting, which a strength: readers can establish an integer of truth from the polyprismatic field of openly-biased blogs. Something that subvents the conventions of the mainstream media can hardly be described as having lost its radical edge.
The only places bloggers can illicit potential change (at least for now) is in niche issues such as broadband rollout where there is a strong correlation between blog readers and stakeholders. More far-reaching change can only be achieved if the Irish public get politicised, as (nearly) happened during the statutory rape farce. Unfortunately this isn’t happening as our well-cushioned affluent arses are jammed fast into our chairs.
I worked in old media. Just a local radio DJ, but I felt like I was inside some kind of exclusive circle of the annointed. Why should I have a platform to publish and my neighbour not? What makes me special?
The answer, of course is: nothing.
Has blogging peaked?
Revolutions, by definition, do not peak.
That’s a very strange thesis you have there. Others above have already referred to some of the differences between blogging and the mainstream media. I would add that many mainstream hacks have utilised their blogs to get across messages that might not have made it through the editorial processes of their paymasters.
There will always be the blogs of people wanting to talk about their cats. That’s fine, and it gives people a creative outlet, as Sweary says, for their writing impulses.
But if there is a revolution in all of this, rather than just info overkill and white-noise news, then it is the possibility of fresh perspectives on current affairs events, both untainted by editorial agendas and often straight from the source of the news itself, as was evident during the O’Connell Street riots when bloggers and live radio stole the show from Charlie Bird and the pedestrian print press.
Whether it is the sharp satire commentary of people like Sweary and Twenty Major, or the more ‘mainstream-esque’ reportage provided by political and current affairs blogs like my own, there is little doubt that blogs will continue to shape and influence how people receive their information about the world.
But on a more macro level, blogs are also about creating communities, sharing information and perspectives from the first person to the second person, from me to you and you to me, without intermediaries.
People are receiving insights into each other’s lives and perspectives, sharing information which is important to them with the world, and without the filter of media agendas.
This is the future.
Haydn - thank you for the opportunity to share thoughts with you for consideration in relation to the article you are writing.
I would like to address your question from the context of business blogging in Ireland.
I personally believe that corporate/business blogging is an untapped opportunity for businesses here in Ireland.
You will find that unlike in the US, not one of the top 50 companies in Ireland have yet embraced new media solutions from blogging to podcasting.
Why is that?
- Has the business case not been built?
- Are the marketing directors of these organisations not sure of the return on investment?
- Perhaps they are not sure where to start?
- Have they been deterred with what they have read in relation to business blogging such as the high profile Wallmart case?
I regularly speak at business events and in the order of 70% of attendees when asked have not come across blogs.
Where they have come across blogs they either think they are complex and technology focused or they consider them as online diaries.
The idea that they can be used to build buzz about your brand, engage with your community, don’t require technology and are an excellent tool in the marketing mix seems to have been missed.
You might be interested in the statistics I quoted in an article I wrote in December 2006 about the fact that recent research indicated that consumers trust blogs ahead of advertisments and email marketing. I am astounded that more businesses are not including blogs in their marketing plans.
You will find the article here:
http://www.krishnade.com/blog/2006/survey-identifies-that-blogs-are-considered-more-trusted-than-advertising/
I even offered free blog consulting to assist which ever of the top 50 companies came to me first to assist them in understanding how blogging could work for them - I am still waiting for the phone to ring.
Perhaps things will change with the first workshop on blogging and podcasting aimed at corporates to be held this Spring by Alternatives.
But in conclusion, in the case of businesses, we’ve a long way to go before we can declare that blogging has been fully embraced. Perhaps 2007 will be the year for business blogging?
You might want to approach Technorati in relation to running a report for you on the stats for Ireland versus the rest of Europe and the US - the person behind Technorati is Dave Sifry who you will find at: http://www.sifry.com/alerts/
If you have any questions re the above, please do not hesitate to contact me.
has blogging in Ireland finally found its feet just as the radical edge of blogging seems to have disappeared?
Has the radical edge of blogging disappeared?
If it appeared there was a radical edge to blogging perhaps it was simply easier to see when there were less bloggers. Signal to noise and all that jazz.
Can we realistically expect now that Irish bloggers bring about change and if so where?
Bloggers schmoggers. People bring about change. Anyone who thought ‘blogging’ in and of itself was going to change anything was, in a way, deluded.
Blogging is a publishing tool, one which is accessible and easy to use - therefore the type of people who bring about change now have another tool in their arsenal, one which instantly has a global reach.
Unfortunately so does everyone else.
Changemongers who are joining the fray at this stage may have a somewhat harder time than early adopters at getting noticed, but generally the nature of blogs is such that it will happen if you are a dedicated changemonger.
The community aspect to blogging, linking, and ‘ cannibalising other bloggers’ posts’ (as referred to previously) means that the good stuff still gathers steam and get noticed - it can just take longer.
I’m simply glad you’re going to publish an article in “The Irish Times”. Any-publicity-is-good-publicity thinking drives me to say this.
You need a good argument to stir things up. It would be good if you could get up the backs of many Irish bloggers.
That’ll excite more people to buy your newspaper. Does it really matter whether they feel content with your views?
I urge you to be irreverend. Give Irish bloggers an example of how to stir things up. Get under their skin. That way you improve your prospect of being spoken about as a disgraceful influence.
Whatever you do, don’t wax lyrical about the forward march of the Irish contingent of bloggers: we are a parochial lot. Seldom do we refer to blogs from other countries.
I’ve come back to Ireland after 30+ years abroad. I notice a general disinterest in the plight of the returned Irish. Taking this as only one example, I think Irish bloggers ignore rich seams in favour of short term popularity.
Irish bloggers dis-illusion themselves slowly: they are mainly hypnotically endebted to their country’s heritage.
Above all they are not curious enough. But they don’t realise this. They live in their own world. And put up with arguing among siblings, as if that was the only way to life.
They are not ambitious. Too often they fail to push the boundaries of their language into new places and fresh shapes.
In a nut shell, Irish bloggers are a conservative bunch.
They ignore provocation when they are not sure what the provocation means, or what legs it has. Essentially they hope the stranger will go away, back to where they learnt such fowl thoughts.
I offer you this collection of gross generalisations in the same spirit a painter would slosh on daubs of colour to start the process.
I am by personality driven to incite reaction. But I have empirical evidence to support my hypotheses. I’ve come back. Most Irish bloggers have forgotten how uncomfortable that is, how awkward it is for anyone to come back to Ireland.
This mistrustful island
that I love
and in loving
learn
love is not enough.
My own take (off the top of my head) is that there’s far too much emphasis on the way in which blogging interacts/intersects with other media. Sure there are many laudable and interesting blogs that comment on, subvert, imitate/parody (etc) the monolith known as the “Mainstream Media”(MM), but there are an equal number that simply ignore it altogether - focusing on matters more “timeless” than topical.
Perhaps I’m biased - since my own blog covers ground many would consider fluffy and inconsequential - but I love reading about the very things that (for reasons of taste, fashion, politics etc) fall under the radar of the old MM. Isn’t that one of the joys of the net? Finding (lovingly preserved) specimens that the forces of novelty and trendiness would happily chuck on history’s bonfire?
Also, the last thing I want to read on a blog is wannabe, professional journalism (not that there’s anything remotely wrong with professional journalism of course). The problem is that such writing often ends up stinking of pandering. Who gives a flying fuck what “people who don’t normally read blogs but read daily newspapers” think of one’s blog? Far from trying to win over or please folk who‘d say “You have too much time on your hands!”, bloggers should (in my opinion) be ploughing their own furrow ever more tenaciously. “Limited appeal” (after all) is no bad thing and nothing to be ashamed off.
What we need in the Irish blogosphere is not a gang of fresh recruits for the Mainstream Media Mills, but rather a dynamic, playful and confident avant-garde!
To be fair, and recognising that I never liked blogging, folks might want to take a look over the parapet now and again. Outside of people who are involved in blogging in some form, I’ve never had a single conversation with someone about a blog. Most of the population wouldn’t have a foggiest what you’re talking about or simply aren’t interested and many of them are people who are quite tech savvy. There’s a lot of back-slapping and navel gazing that goes on in blogging as a whole but especially in Irish blogging.
One of the things I’ve learned after blogging for six years is that the numbers have increased. The numbers blogging increase year-on-year and the numbers reading continue upwards. No fewer than 2000 people a day read at least one page from my personal weblog. Most come from outside of Ireland to read tech tips and money-saving hacks because blogging used to be a technology exercise and I write about tech stuff. Things are changing. Today, Irish bloggers range from pre-teens to grandparents. Without any kind of State subsidy, Irish people have used easy internet connectivity to reach across distances to share experiences.
I think many of those shared experiences occur through photostreams, specialised advice, travel stories, and calendar events. I know people stop at Cashel now–even with an easy bypass–because they have viewed my Rock of Cashel images or read about my favourite coffee shops. This kind of result would not have happened if I had not blogged, snapped and recorded Cashel for my blog.
Most of the tourism agencies seem a little unaware of the promotional side effects of blogging. Some Irish bloggers are providing case studies for tourism executives by focusing their blogs on local markets, community activities or political decisions.
Several Irish politicians have taken blogging to heart. You have read their blogs. Six years ago, when I showed a local TD what I was doing as a blogger, he recoiled at the thought of writing for public view, and then didn’t know why anyone would allow visitors to edit his writing through comments or trackbacks. Back then, boards.ie was the only way to connect and cross-comment. Many of those who never used boards started to think about writing on the internet, and they opened their own blog sites.
Another thing that’s worth noting: the politicians who understand and use their blogs to reach their commuting constituents are making government more accessible. That alone points to a watershed event that made 2006 a very good year for Irish blogging. Surely Feargal would agree with this fact. Although he would probably say nothing is significant unless the party leaders start blogging. I don’t agree–the dam has broken and from last year forward, many political candidates will have a blog presence.
You don’t need to have the equivalent of the Huffington Post to have a vibrant Irish blogging scene. You don’t have to be a thought leader or an agenda setter to effectively use and contribute to social media.
And you don’t have to accept the metrics used by mainstream media to rightfully claim that blogging has evolved in Ireland.
Interesting point by Bif. I’ve had the opposite experience and discussed blogging with many people of my parents generation. Sure a lot of them confuse it with Bebo but they know it’s out there.
Hell, I’ve discussed blogging with my coalman. Anyone who has a teenage kid is probably aware of it at this stage. The one response I do get is that people want to know more.
I can only think of one very negative conversation I’ve had about blogging outside of the tech world and that was with a senior retired EI consultant. He went on a rant saying he hated all of “that bloggin shite”. Luckily there are a lot more people in EI who do get it or at least want to get it.
You must hang around with some very insular people Bif!
The advent of blogging has hit what passes for the technology press in Ireland hard. Most of the people who claim to be “technology” journalists have no background in technology. They are, for the most part, just recycling press releases with a byline and a closing paragraph. Those technology journalists with a genuine interest in technology now have blogs.
Blogs are dangerous to shoddy journalism because they are often better informed and more accurate. Though as reportage, blogs can sometimes be poor and inaccurate too.
Perhaps each set of blogs, grouped around their own topics, is in reality a micro social network. And it is this micro-specialisation that makes the generalist, press-release recycling journalist less important.
“but has it all come a bit late?” For whom? is the answer I would add. Although I’ve had many conversations with people about blogging my experience is that we have a very long way to go in Ireland before blogging as a term is even hovering close to the mainstream. There are so many organisations and interest groups out there who, on the face of it, should be blogging as a direct way of getting their message across but who simply don’t know of the existence of blogging as a methodology. Arts and cultural organisations continue to amaze me at their lack of tech literacy in this regard – what better way of starting a conversation about a piece of contemporary art or dance or theatre piece than by blogging or podcasting? But I can count on two hands the number of organisations who are even getting to grips with the concept. I think there’s also a generational issue at play here too because many of those organisations who could embrace blogging as a useful and productive tool are “too old” and I use that term advisedly. The majority of those who attended the Irish Blog Awards ceremony last year were under the age of 30. Thankfully there are a few of us OAPs out here blogging but until the under 30 generation are the policy makers and key decision makers then blogging will hover out on the edges. And finally – the platform requires an opinion and in an age of “me too” and cookie cutter culture there’s no point unless you have a point.
I’m not long into this blogging, but already I’ve noticed a diverse range of opinions out there; and I would now sooner look through the opinions of bloggers on a topic than open up a newspaper, only to realise the same opinion is present in all of them.
Has blogging peaked? Since it is only now that people are starting to realise what blogging is - although some people have been at it for years - the answer in my opinion is no.
And can it be used as a vehicle for bringing about change? Absolutely, yes. However, blogging needs to be given more publicity if the opinions of bloggers are ever to exert any kind of influence on the politicians; there’s no point in having a message if it can’t be sent, right?
Bif’s point has a certain validity, vertainly it is very easy to get caught up in the so called ‘blogosphere’ and forget that the ‘blogging community’ is not the be all and end all.
However - as I said previously, a blog is simply a tool which publishes content to the internet.
A huge amount of people, who use computers but are not necessarily hugely involved in the scene, will browse the internet and not make a distinction between a website and a blog.
As it should be, and will be increasingly.
Perhaps that accounts for at least some part of what Bif describes. However, the effectiveness of ‘blogging’ does not rely on the visitor’s understanding of the technology, it relies on the nature of the content.
Having said that, there’s still a lot of back slapping and navel gazing goes on - just look at the Irish Blog Awards…
[…] And watch out in the Irish Times for an article about the current state of the Irish blogging nation which will coincide with the announcement of the Irish Blog Awards in early March. […]
Haydn - just to let you know that I have just invited all the blogs nominated in the business blog awards category to participate in a project to develop a case study on business blogging in Ireland.
We may not have it collated in time for your report, but if you would like me to keep you informed of what we create, let me know.
JC,
My “thesis” is simply that blogging is a revolution: a fundamental change which puts the power to publish into the hands of more people than ever before.
My point in relation to Haydn’s questions is that there is no question of it being “too late” to realise the promise of blogging. The change is permanent. It doesn’t matter that bloggers have turned pro and pros have started blogging. The point is that the door is open now for all.
Everytime someone realises their blogging makes a difference either to others or themselves (personal development etc) then that’s a revolution. Millions of personal revolutions is what blogging has delivered. It also means revolutions are always happening as people start and stop blogging. The timing doesn’t really matter. That the Huff Post and Daily Kos have hit mainstream isn’t the big issue in my view, the big issue is the mindhack that blogging delivers to each individual. I consider blogging as a world of niche audiences where writing to 20 is as good as writing to 20 million.
That ‘Where is our Huffington Post?’ question seems to crop up a lot but part of the reach of sites like that is the fact that they blog about things that have a a huge market (300m Americans) and what they blog about has an effect on the rest of the world.
American politics and foreign policy affects the whole world. What Bertie and McDougal and Harney do has little reach beyond Ireland.
I predict the biggest change in the coming year will be from people who begin to make a living through blogging. Not just from slapping their sites in Google ads but through secondary projects like sponsored podcasting or even book deals.
There will be people who blog professionally.
with the exception of slugger, are there any irish blogs that reach beyond the ghetto of irish bloggers?
It depends on what scale you’re talking about. 75% of my visitors come from outside Ireland. England and the US account for 25% each.
There are other subect specific blogs with far more success outside of Ireland than in it.
there’s no irish equivalent of the huffington post, the gruan’s comment is free or any of the other uk media-owned bloggers.
Huff Post covered above but I think the point about the Guardian is a great one. There is a huge gap between the blogs and so-called Mainstream Media. The the way the Guardian have done it is brilliant, somebody needs to do it in Ireland.
Maybe even a Sunday paper like the Turbine could embrace this as a way to produce relatively low cost content all week and raise their profile considerably.
What I don’t get is that the Turbine already know that their Joe Bloggs reviews got them Sunday purchases and that both Delevan and Mulley elevate the brand outside of the Dublin market. So why can’t the Turbine be free to view and why doesn’t the Turbine have a blog? It could be www.turbine.ie and not damage the print side while connecting with everyone who wants to be a member of the community.
There are at least 10 people on this comment string who could be the paid consultancy service to keep it ticking over and it wouldn’t have to cost more than EUR 12000 annually for hosting and moderation services.
Hadyn,
Let me refer you to Trevor Butterworth’s article on Blogging in the Financial Times (17.02.2006).
After his article was published, the FT set up a blog on which many people from all round the world commented.
He addressed the same issue as you are proposing to write about.
You can find the link to the FT article and related blog via Omaniblog, “From Bath to Cork with Baby Grace.”
I think you’ll find a more experienced debate there than anywhere in Ireland, for obvious and other reasons (perspectives from people based in many different countries and cultures…)
As far as I can see, Irish bloggers didn’t get involved in Butterworth/FT’s feature. I bet there won’t be a single blogger who reads the FT at the Irish Blogging Awards Event.
Good luck. Write something worth reading.
Not to wish to deflate stereotypes, I know at least three Irish bloggers living within Munster who read the pink pages several times a week.
Sorry i should have given you the link to my blog, in case you have time to read through all the FT stuff. It’s “http://omaniblog.blogs.ie” (or is it “omaniblogs.blog.ie”?)
I look forward to making a collection of all the comments on your blog, and laying them out alongside the FT stuff, and seeing whether my hypothesis, that Irish bloggers are mainly inward-looking and conservative, is refutable.
I’m only just back from Scotland this minute so embarassed not to have been taking part in the debate. I will update the blog tomorrow. Thanks to everyone for their views. I’ll talk with Hugh Linehan, the IT’s new features editor, tomorrow and ask if we can do something to reflect the amazing diversity - here’s another thought though: is there anywhere else you’d go and get this level of diversity - most places you visit viewpoints polarise. Now, culturally that’s a great thing but is it what allows politicians to hang on to power long after they deserve to go because a consensus on action is dissipated by all these nuances?
Am I the only person who just posts random things that crop up in my head and that I see…..? I really should be taking all this a bit more seriously…
Conn, I was referring to Hayden’s thesis, not yours. I should have made that clearer.
Write what you know, Rick. Write what you know.
Gave up half way down that discussion - some great debate.
For me blogging is another tool that small businesses can consider when trying to get a fit between their business requirements and the various ways of communicating their message to their customers and potential customers. For some it will be a very effective tool (those with passion, a story to tell, the time to tell it or who are comfortable with the slightly more personal style of a blog against “normal” websites.
It is 7 or 8 years since I was working with Kilkenny CEB and holding well attended seminars on email newsletters - and they are only now starting to be used by SME’s. Blogging will kick in more quickly because we are now at a critical mass of users - however it’s potential usage is probably lower because of the factors referred to in the previous paragraph.
The speed at which it kicks in will depend in part on the provision of relevant training by CEB’s into this sector. And that provision will be sparse in coverage because a lot of CEB’s will not see the point of it.
That’s my take on one part of this debate.
keith
It’s a pity to see this peter out…
And not a single person challenge my hypothesis that Irish bloggers are a conservative bunch…
Ignore that view and maybe it’ll go away and play somewhere else…?
Is The Irish Times going to publish your article?
If so, when?
- please.
Should be out on the 2nd March. I think your viewpoint is interesting. We’ll get a chance toreflect many views so hoefully this one too.
Thanks Haydn. I look forward to that read. I think you’ve done a great thing by letting people know that you’re about to write something and inviting them to influence you.
This approach is one that blogging facilitates. It enriches the end product.
I think you’ve provided a good example of how conventional print journalism and virtual blogging can usefully get into bed together.
Let me add another word to my hypothetical descriptor of Irish bloggers: shy. Irish bloggers are shy. Comparing them with what? I’m not sure. I need to think this out more. You’ve set me off down a track.
The only thing is that I don’t think I’ll find many friends down this track.
The question you’ve been commissioned to write about presumes that blogs are ‘for’ something.
My contribution to this is here:
http://www.tuppenceworth.ie/blog/index.php/2006/05/27/not-the-nine-oclock-news/
Hey Simon, welcome. I take your point. I wonder from an etiquette point of view whether linkig to your postwould have been better accompanied at least by a link to this post but no matter. I agree with much of what you have to say there. I think “writing” is for something whether you do that in a blog a newspaper or for that matter on toilet paper. To write aimlessly seems a bit…. aimless.
I think blogging can offer you the chance to get rid of stress by talking your mind or typing your mind and it can offer your readers a but of humour. I think Bebo and MySpace blogs are growing because there is loads of blog sites in the world wide web and the moment and people read the blogs to get a bit of humour from them.
By using Blogger and Bebo for posting my own personal blogs I feel blogging offers me somewhere to post my feelings and my past and present experiences. I feel blogging offers me and others chances to see and read about other peoples lives and experiences and to learn more about each other.
I feel blogging is great when there is something that you feel you can’t talk about but that you feel easier typing about.
Overall I think blogging offers me somewhere to share what I’m feeling and experiencing with others.
I think blogs have a lot to offer because i think it gives u a chance to say what you want to say and give your opinions on what you think. It also gives people a chance to get to know you better and it gives people humour. I definetly think blogs are growing because they are expanding and getting more popular eachday. I have a blog on my bebo site and i really like the way you can do that because you can see peoples opinions etc.
Here we are blogging about blogs…what are we like? I’m a sixteen year old and i have only recently realised how important blogging while I doing a multimedia course in Tipp Institute this week. It just shows that although adults crib about us going on bebo because it is unsafe, I’m not saying it isn’t, they do not make it known to us that by blogging be have a better chance of communicating over the web more securely. Blogs are amazing, without sharing too many personal details we can debate and share opinions on topics instantly. The saying goes, “A picture speaks a thousand words” but I’m not a believer in this. A word can create a thousand pictures in the mind in an instant and when we share these words an amazing eray of thoughts and images are also shared. I have just discovered blogging, as I said but I intend to use it to express my views and to make a name for myself hopefully when I qualify as a journalist. Blogging lets you see what other people think but blogging also lets you share what you think and sometimes these are the two most underestimated things about communication.
Mr Shaughnessy,
After reading an article of yours regarding blogging I decided to leave you a comment. I find your writing very interesting and I wish to compliment you on this. I am a member of the bebo generation and a keen fan of blogging, I have just started blogging with blogger.com. This has proven to be productive for me as a number of my friends have read my blog and commented. I find the blogshpere exciting as anything can come out of it. As a frequent bebo user, I have watched bebo grow dramatically within the past year, many bebo users use blogs on bebo which have proven to be very popular, it gives the users a chance to express their opinions and exchange views which, in my opinion is always worthwhile. Freedom of speech and interaction with others, once it’s used correctly it can be marvellous. I can see blogging continuing to grow in the future especially on bebo. However as a secondary school student one problem I experience with bebo is how it’s band from most schools, I think bebo blogging during a free class may be productive, in some cases….. If not I will just have to continue blogging with sites such as blogger.com.
I hope to continue reading your appealing writing.
Regards,
Maria
HI Maria, Leanne, Maria
Something happened to that last comment - should have read Maria, Leanne, Marie, Jack, Edith. I guess you are all bebo generation. I’m sorry the article didn’t cover that - I just watch my children on bebo rather than actually using it myself. What I’d like to suggest is tell me more about how you use blogging, the kinds of issues you want to air, the frustrations perhaps that lead you to blog, and what you think the future media landscape will look like - what you guys will create in the way of communications in future and I will put it to the editor as a posisbel topic for a follow up article.
Thanks for visiting
haydn
[…] Edit: While on the subject of Irish blogs, Haydn Shaughnessy asked if Irish blogging is about to peak just as blogging becomes mainstream elsewhere? I never got around to commenting on it, but if I had I would have asked, “Does it matter? People have been nattering and gossiping forever and a day and they’ll do it in whatever forum they can.” His article appeared in today’s Irish Times, so go buy the dead tree version, or read the comments on the post above. […]
Hi again , Haydn !
A brief note to say ‘Thank You !’ for including our comments in your ‘Irish Times’ article today (Friday 2 March 2007) - much appreciated !
Slan go foill anois ,
Sharon .
Hi Sharon. I thought the diversity of intelligent views was great and wanted to demonstrate it to wider public. Hope the opportunity arises again.
And a brief note of thanks from me too. It made very interesting reading.
Omani, Grandad. Hope it’s evidence that the trad media are listening and responding. We have a great community of writers here.
Mise aris , Haydn !
…..I also meant to state that your article was concise , well layed-out and had , in my opinion , a nicely-placed graphic to help illustrate the piece .
You might make a good blogger yourself…. !
Sharon .
Haydn,
I think it’s great that your article has encouraged some new voices into the open. To read a 16 year old writer is so refreshing. Anything that draws new writers into the Irish blog world must be good. Because the small number of Irish bloggers are so conservative… and doesn’t yet deserve the accolade “a great community of writers”, in my opinion. Diversity is essential for a healthy gene pool. Amen.
ps thanks again.
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